It's not just designers and tweakers. The publishing company I work for (80 b2b magazines, 12 conferences, 150 websites, umpty-leven email newsletters) has about 8 programmers who are quite productive with PHP or ASP or ASP.Net, or Zope 2 scripting. So maybe these guys are really "scripters" by the standards of Zope 3 mavens. But they are the people I am trying to win over to Z3, and it's tough, because they have a hard time getting their heads around it. Several of them have at least basic familiarity with Python, and RoR and Django and TurboGears are attractive to them. If that's the way we have to go to get away from PHP, so be it; but for maintainability and (after the learning curve) rapid development, I still think Z3 is the way to go, and I am trying to figure out how to get the company there.
So I think Chris' call for scaffolding is right on the money. Most people are intimidated by a blank sheet of paper, and an example application that can be tweaked and modified is a big boost to productivity. (At least until the developer has gained some experience with the framework, then the training wheels can come off.)
I do not think that TTW is a big issue, TTB is much more important. I also think TAL is not really a problem. Keeping ZPT's in the mix will make Z2 users feel more secure, and if the Book in TTB says to work with a simple subset of TAL, people will be cool with that.
-- Wade Leftwich
Ithaca, NY
Merge CherryPy and Zope3
Posted byksmith99at
2005-12-24 01:59 AM
It would be nice if there was already a prebuilt Z3 app that merged the CherryPy paradigm to the Zope3 paradigm. Then we could have clarity and adaptability. Phillip's recent proposal replacing zcml with decorators hits pretty close to this mark. http://www.z3lab.org/sections/blogs/philipp-weitershausen/2005_12_14_zcml-needs-to-do-less
So I think Chris' call for scaffolding is right on the money. Most people are intimidated by a blank sheet of paper, and an example application that can be tweaked and modified is a big boost to productivity. (At least until the developer has gained some experience with the framework, then the training wheels can come off.)
I do not think that TTW is a big issue, TTB is much more important. I also think TAL is not really a problem. Keeping ZPT's in the mix will make Z2 users feel more secure, and if the Book in TTB says to work with a simple subset of TAL, people will be cool with that.
-- Wade Leftwich
Ithaca, NY